Fear, Hope, & self-compassion: Guest host Dr. Elizabeth Hawkins Interviews me about my new book

Transcript Disclaimer:
This transcript was generated using AI software from the original podcast audio and may contain errors, omissions, or minor inaccuracies. It has been lightly edited for readability. Please refer to the full podcast episode for the most accurate representation of the conversation.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 0:00

Welcome back, everyone. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Hawkins, joining Don't Feed the Fear today with a twist. Usually, Dr. Amanda Whitehouse is the one behind the mic asking the questions. Today, I'm turning the tables and putting her in the hot seat, and I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while. For those of you who don't know me, I'm a food allergy psychologist and a food allergy mom. Dr. Whitehouse and I have been colleagues and friends for a while now. I was so excited when she told me she was writing a book about the psychological journey of allergy treatments because I knew it was going to fill a gap that this community has needed filled for a very long time. I had the privilege of reading an early copy, and I found myself nodding and agreeing with the content while also being very curious about her experience in writing it. So that's what we're here to talk about today. Less about her treatment journey with her son, which you can find in an earlier episode, and it's in the book. I want to know what it was like to write something so deeply personal and weave together her professional and personal voices, what went into the process, and how she came out the other side of it a different person, and how she hopes the people who need it most will use this book.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 1:05

Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we dive into the complex world of food allergy anxiety. I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, food allergy anxiety psychologist and food allergy mom. Whether you're dealing with allergies yourself or supporting someone who is, join us for an empathetic and informative journey toward food allergy calm and confidence.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 1:31

Welcome, Dr. Whitehouse, to Don't Feed the Fear. We're here today to talk about your brand-new book, "From Fear to Freedom: A Workbook for Navigating Allergy Immunotherapy."

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 1:40

Thank you for joining me here on my podcast. This is such a weird position to be in

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 1:44

It's a twist for sure

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 1:46

It is a twist, but it was so much less mental preparation than it usually is. So you've done the legwork. I appreciate your time, and it was so kind of you to offer this idea when you had it. We were chatting about the book and you said, "I want to do this." And I thought, "Wonderful," because that puts the work in your plate, not mine

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 2:02

Yeah, I think it'll be a really fun conversation and helpful for people to get a look behind the scenes of what it was like to, to write this book

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 2:09

Yeah. Well, it was a whirlwind. Hopefully I can remember.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 2:11

Yeah. Well, could you start us off by telling a little bit about the book, how it came to be, and who the audience is?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 2:17

Sure. So this is good practice. I'm struggling with my elevator pitch for the book because there's so much in it. It is part informational text. So I have guests, who join me on the podcast to talk about the different treatments, who are physicians in the field, who are sharing their perspective on what they want patients to know about each of those treatments or different angles of things you have to consider when you're making those decisions.

And then, as you mentioned, part of it is memoir. It's my son's stories. And we've tried so many treatments that really we had something to speak about for a lot of the aspects of the book. And then the areas where we didn't, I pulled in some friends to share their stories about how they made their decisions and what the treatment was like for them, so that the people reading it could see each kind of experience represented.

Of course, everyone's experience is going to be different, but I think it's helpful to hear that from patients. And then for each of those sections, there's a workbook aspect. A lot of those are actually for teen or adult patients or for the parents who are making the decisions to help them think through their mindset about the treatment decisions and what's motivating those, what their goals are, their expectations, how to prepare, how to deal with the emotional parts, and to know what to expect.

And then there are also some activities in there that those adults and parents can use with kids if the kids are the ones undergoing treatment. Um, so there's really a little bit of something in it for everybody is my hope

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 3:33

You're right, there is something in it for everyone. How long ago did you come up with the idea to do it?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 3:40

Very long time ago. So my son started, as I shared in that one episode, which I'll link that in the notes for people if they missed it and they're curious. But my son started traditional Chinese medicine or TCM with an amazing doctor and researcher in 2014. I started thinking about it then. I started thinking about it really even in a different form when he was diagnosed and I started just digging through journals. You and me, we're psychologists, like we find the journals and we look for the evidence, and so I was thankful I had that skill. And my doctors were telling me there's nothing available, and I'm reading these journal articles about things that are available and that were helping kids. So it's been a long time in my brain processing before it became a real book.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 4:25

It is complex, and the landscape has changed so much over the years from, I know, I think we started a couple, just a couple years before you, so our timelines are somewhat similar, and we've done many of the same treatments over the years. And it is so different now, and it is so much more complex in terms of what's available and the pros and cons and how to navigate all of those. And so, the book is part memoir, part guide, part workbook, and you've woven in some of those Don't Feed the Fear podcast interviews throughout. What about that kind of structure and organization, did that just seem like a natural fit for how to address the complexity of the landscape of treatment?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 5:02

It did. And that was not part of my original plan when I started working on the book. I wanted to do a season of the podcast when I started writing it, and then I was shocked at how many people signed on and were so willing to come and talk. So it started from like, "Oh, I'll do an episode about OIT and an episode about SLIT, and I'll do an episode about biologics," and it turned into 12 episodes with amazing physicians. And then it turned into 15 or 20 with guests then talking about their patient experiences, too.

So I realized that's so much content, and all of these experts were so willing to work with me. So then it was... trouble asking, but it was just like one more little ask, like, "Can I take what we talked about anyway, and can we include it in this book?" And so I felt so much more confident putting the book together because now I had the medical information that people need to combine with the mental health, but I wasn't the one trying to put it out there and present myself as a medical expert, which I'm not. So, so much gratitude to all of those people who took the time to make sure that that was accurate in the book in the way that it was described. It kind of just fell into place naturally because I had too much information. I didn't know what to do with all of it.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 6:10

It's such a unique and I think really thoughtful way to handle that. And for the reader then they get that more scientific medical background as well as the psychological side by side so as you were writing, was there one part that you particularly struggled with or found the hardest?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 6:25

This is going to sound so silly. It was so hard for me to remember when we did what, what year we started this. It was a whirlwind in our lives when we started seeking treatment. As I said, we started with TCM. I was pregnant, and then I had that baby, and then we ended up switching treatments, and then I had another surprise baby way sooner than I was ready for another baby, especially with everything on the plate. And so the details were difficult to get correct. And then, as you read, I talked about how I didn't expect that to be an emotional process going back through it, but I had just powered through. There wasn't really a lot of room for the emotional aspect, and what was, was focused on my son's emotional experience.

So there was a whole emotional component to walking back through that and seeing myself from the outside internally, like, "Oh, you did that? And you had-- And those kids were only this old, and you were working, and you had the..." You know, I-- With a little bit of compassion for myself of how much it was that I just shoved through, pushed through

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 7:25

I know sometimes I look back in amazement at the things I did and wonder how did I ever do it, because it doesn't seem possible. But when it's your kids and their health, you figure it out

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 7:35

You just figure it out. Yeah, and your story is the same, which for those listening, we are going to be sharing Dr. Hawkins'' story and the treatments, um, that her daughter has gone through too, and all of the things that you juggle in your family are so different from mine. So when you tell me your story, "Oh my gosh, yes, that's so much. How did you do it?" But then when it was my story, I never considered that in the same light

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 7:54

Yeah. I want to dive in a little bit more i- to exactly what you were just talking about, which is like that's going back in time and reprocessing those experiences and that time period. So it sounds like on one hand a little bit was a blur, so it was just nailing down the actual specifics of it. On an emotional level, what came up for you?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 8:14

There was a lot of grief. The motherhood experience that I could have had is not anything like what I did. And as you said, when we're in the moment and we're just powering through for our kids, we're not stepping back and viewing that. We know we're stressed, we know we're spread thin and tired, we don't look at that big picture of, "This looks nothing like I thought parenting would be. I don't look like the person I thought I would be." Like, I'm a really kind of silly, laid back, goofy person, it brought so much seriousness and so much rigor and so much control into parenting that I had perceived I would do so differently.

As a psychologist, I don't know if you can relate to this, but before I had kids, I was already in private practice. Like, I thought I was a great parent. I thought I knew so much information about parenting and child development and how I wanted to do it based on that, and this really flips a lot of that in terms of what we want to give our kids, the experiences that we want to have. So that was sad for me. I want you to answer that too. Did you experience that? You don't have to if you don't want to.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 9:26

Yes, I can relate to it a little bit, that grief. Um, you know, in some ways I haven't reprocessed like you have, so maybe I haven't fully experienced the grief.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 9:35

Write your book!

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 9:37

I think a difference between us is it's also my second child, you know. So I had an older one, so I'd had three years of being a mom before this entered into my life. Um, but for sure it changed ever- it changed everything. And I think, um, especially as my daughter is, you know, on, like, literally the verge of turning 18 and being independent, I think I am starting to kind of pull back and marvel at the whole experience of it and work through all of that because it is, it is happening so quickly, and I think my needs and my emotions have always been secondary to what everyone else needs and of course keeping everyone safe and healthy. So yeah, I think I still probably have some stuff to unpack.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 10:22

I think it takes a while. I'm sitting here wanting to censor my answer because I'm saying it looks nothing like what I wanted it to, and that's an emotion. Because in so many ways it did. I had a great experience, and we, we had so many of the wonderful things that I wanted our life to be like. That's part of it too, I think, is contrasting I know factually to be true. I'm so thankful to be where we're at and for my son to be in maintenance for everything, and doesn't make the emotions from those

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 10:52

Of course not.

And I wonder if you have a little bit of this too, because I think, and at the same time, right? So it's not either/or. And at the same time, I learned so much about myself. So yes, I had to become a different kind of parent and a different kind of person. I learned so much about myself in that process, and I'm where I am today because of that. You know, you and I both are now specializing in this field, which we never would have otherwise. Um, and so it has taken my life and your life in a totally different direction, and there's a lot to be grateful for about that as well

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 11:27

I was thinking just the other day about that and that illusion that I think a lot of us have, myself included absolutely, that it's because of food allergies that this happened.

If it weren't for the food allergies, we wouldn't have had these challenges But most people have something, and if it's not one thing, it's another that would shape us in the same way. Some of it is specific to the medical context of the diagnosis but some of it is just very much a developmental process of becoming an adult and becoming a parent, and how are you going to respond when challenge arises? It might be when your son is first born like me. It might be you're three years into a parent and this is your second child. It might be until you're 60 and your parents get ill and it's a later in life thing. But we're all going to face something at some point that's going to refine and shape and mold us differently than we anticipate.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 12:15

Yeah. And I think that's important to remind grief when it gets a little too chatty, is I think we do have this vision of what it might be like, and it rarely is ever like what we think it's going to be. And that's probably true for everything in life, right? We have these visions of what will be, and they're likely not going to be like that

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 12:33

Especially with social media, right? When we're on there and we're seeing our friends hopping off on vacation and going to restaurants, and they're doing snacks with the Little League team or whatever it might be. Obviously, we, our lives look different, but we don't know what's behind the scenes for most of those families. Some people have really carefree parenting experiences, but I don't think the majority

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 12:52

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we're talking about how being a food allergy parent has changed you. How do you think writing this book has changed you?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 13:00

Hmm. this is hard for me to say. You and I both talk behind the scenes about how it can be difficult. It's difficult to put yourself out there. It's difficult to kind of self-promote. As psychologists and in our field, we don't approach things like, "I'm the expert. I know all these things, and I'm going to tell you what to do." That's not how therapy works. I think people do think they come in and we give them advice because we have all this knowledge. That is not what we do. So I don't see myself in that way. And I think when I started writing the book, it made it a little bit easier to get some momentum because I had all these experts it's factual information. It brought me this recognition of that I do know some things and I have some valuable experience to bring to the table, and I don't-- I can't claim all that. It's, it's my son, and it's all the clients that have trusted me to sit through those experiences with them. But I kind of just collectively have gathered up so many people's life experiences, so much more than if it was just own life, I found myself having a lot to say. When I first wrote this book, it was over 400 pages. It was almost 450 pages and I thought, "Well, that's certainly too long." But I, I think that that helped me realize, there's a lot that I have to share, and that-- I don't mean to sound conceited. I hope people aren't taking that the wrong way. But I, I hope it comes across I genuinely want to help people.

And so it became this platform for me to develop that confidence and realize there is a lot that I can share with our community that can be helpful, and it felt really good to do that

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 14:27

I bet. And that is so interesting. I think, I think sometimes that is maybe a little bit of a side effect of being psychologists like we are. Um, we have a-- we do have a lot. Um, and I think when you combine all that, the, like you said, the clinical training, the research training, all of that background, you know, I know you and I both have decades of experience working with families in various capacities, then you layer in the personal experience we have of living this life for so long, um, and you combine those, then there is a lot. But, you know, we probably tend to undervalue that and maybe don't feel as, uh, sure in it as we should be

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 15:08

Right. And it's natural for us to protect everything at all costs. Confidentiality is of the utmost. And I still am very careful about that obviously, but we don't, we don't go around and talk about what our clients accomplished and, "Hey, I had this kiddo who, who did this thing and they were afraid of their food challenge, and then they got through it." You know, I can't go, go to the dinner table and tell my spouse that or talk to my kids about that, or, um, even with colleagues, it's very restricted in which circumstances we do that. And of course, till I met you, there's... We don't have a lot of colleagues who do what we do or get it anyway. Um, so I think that, um, we're very protective, and I think that that extends into, like you said, us talking about even what we do, and how do I present that on social media? And you and I both have been struggling with that. Like, what does that look like when these values and these pillars of my profession always have to come first? So the book was a little bit, I guess it gave me some flexibility and let me step outside of that a little bit, um, because I didn't have to talk about my clients. I could talk about all these people who joined me and shared their stories willingly, who were not clients, but then I could just bring in the tools that I had learned from my clients.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 16:13

As you say that, I'm thinking, you know, I'm, I'm reflecting on how isolating our jobs can be for exactly the reasons you're just talking about, that we can't openly share. I mean, we can sometimes share a little bit about our emotional experience of it, but we're not sharing any details. And there's like sometimes a parallel for a lot of the times, I think people in the food allergy community that, you know, they might be one-- the only people they know who are struggling with allergies, and they feel very isolated and alone in that. And I think that's such an amazing, wonderful thing about this book and the way you do weave in your, your memoir and your stories is it helps the reader know that they're not alone.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 16:51

And I think found in my work, I, I believe you have too, there's training and there's experience and there's knowledge, and then there's something in people that like when they hear that I also lived this, I also have this experience, their shoulders drop and their breathing shifts and their whole facial expression changes. And there's this element of safety that doesn't come from our professional knowledge. It comes from, like you said, being seen and not feeling

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 17:17

Yeah

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 17:18

And so my hope is that that sense carries forward into the book by sharing that. I never thought I would share our story, um, but that's the goal of that piece of it. There, there is just this, a level of safety that comes with people who get it very deeply.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 17:33

Yep. So as I was reading it, um, one of the things that I, I really enjoyed is you shared, um, so many very touching anecdotes in the book about how your son's treatment journey became a whole family affair. And, uh, that made me really think a lot about how I had handled that component as well. You did, it just sounds like an amazing and marvelous job of having everyone feel included and have a role in that. I am so curious to know what your kids thought and said when they held your book in their hands for the first time and they saw. Because they know you've been doing this for a long time, but when they saw the finished product

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 18:09

so it was really sweet. I love books. I'm a nerd. I've always been.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 18:12

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 18:13

I always wanted to write a book. I didn't know what it would be, and I have a lot of children's books in mind and all sorts of things that, that hopefully some of them will come out one day. but like, grabbed my hand, and he looked me in the eyes, and he said, "Mom, you're an author. You wrote a book." As if he understood how meaningful that was to me. and that was cool because we don't get to be seen a lot as parents, and my kids are great. I'm not complaining about them or kids in general. They're really sweet and kind to me. But for them to see that, like, to see me completing a dream, you know, it sounds cheesy to say that, but it really, it's a dream of mine. So that sunk in in that moment, like, that they're seeing me do it, and I hope that that registers for them, and I hope it carries forward into whatever it is that they want to do.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 18:59

Well, and I think that whole process from having a goal, having a dream, to working very hard for a very long time, and I'm sure you went through the whole gamut of emotions and frustrations and ups and downs in the writing of it to get to that final finished product and to have something so concrete to show for all that effort, like, that's also such a powerful lesson for them

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 19:22

Yeah. Well, and I think too, they were very generous. I mean, they, they were impacted by the final stages where I really had to buckle down and spend just entire weekends writing and their dad took them to some activities that I would always be the one to do, and I felt sad to miss out, and they liked that and in some ways they didn't like it, and it impacted them. Um, so I think to hold that product in their hands and know that that's what I was doing helped to kind of buffer that all parents, all moms, we carry our mom guilt, but especially I think in the food allergy community, it's really heavy and we feel like we need to be available all the time. And it was an emotional process for me to give myself permission to do this.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 19:59

Yeah. There is so much guilt. And, you know, one of the things, one of my pet peeves with language, and I, I know you share kind of a, a focus on language as well, is it's not guilt. Like, guilt is like we're doing something wrong, you know? And it's not. But, like, there's something about that feels like we're doing something wrong. But I think, you know, if I asked you, are those actions aligned with your values, you know? They are, of course. And we're not depriving, you're, we're not depriving our children in any way whatsoever of that. But, like, that, there's still that residual feeling, you know? That

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 20:34

There is, but it feels good for a psychologist to tell me that out loud, I have to say.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 20:40

Just a little bonus there.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 20:41

Thanks for the reminder, yeah.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 20:42

Yeah. Yeah. That is one of my guilt, not guilt, uh, you know, spiels I, I give a lot with clients

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 20:49

Well, and I would add to that, part of it also is probably not guilt is a little bit of dysregulation or discomfort because I'm the one. I-- You know, and safety in our house by default has meant me being the one who's there. And I was away. Sometimes I went away to write, and that's different for our family. And he's fine.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 21:08

Yeah. Yeah

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 21:10

Um, I had some lingering trauma. The first time I traveled for a work conference after he had been doing better. I was like, "I want to go to this training. I'm gonna make myself do it," right? All the things you just said. I have to take care of myself. It's aligned with my values and it has worth. And he had anaphylaxis in the middle of the night when I was, you know, too far away to get home. That still lives with me. And I'm working on it, and we're getting there. But that got stirred up, too. So a lot of what I'm calling guilt is probably some dysregulation, like some of that trauma from things that have happened before when I've made similar changes when I wasn't available or our schedule was different. And that's-- I think those are the things, myself included, we don't name that. We don't call that out. We just feel uncomfortable with something, and I think it is important to identify what it is. So you just helped me do that right now. Thank you.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 22:00

And I think you're, you're, you're like putting your finger on, I think, the heart of what in some ways makes people want to come see people like you or I who have that lived experience, because it's real. It's true. You know? We can understand that in a way that a lot of people, I think, can't, and then have the skills to be able to try to help someone psychologically, and hopefully help ourselves as well

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 22:24

Yeah, and that's true. I mean, I learn and it helps me. Every client that I

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 22:27

every single one. Yeah, I agree. Um, so the book, throughout it all, you have reflection prompts, you have exercises, you have worksheets. As you said, you have child-directed activities. How would you like someone who's purchasing this book to use it? If they have it in their hands

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 22:45

Um, that's a good question. I think that depends a lot on where you're at. and I tried to write this in a way that it's helpful for anyone, no matter which stage you're at. I think that will look different depending on where you're at. But even if you're someone who thinks, "That's not for me. I don't want to do any of those things," or, "They're not available to me. It's just not an option right now," even for them, I think it's worthwhile because I think a lot of us say no or resist or turn away from an option out of fear, out of anxiety, out of trauma, and we don't know that. So I think it's worthwhile to buy a book and read about that and process that, and if that brings you more confirmation in your decision, "I was right. I'm not making this decision out of fear. It's not avoidance. This is actually aligned with my values and what works for our family structure right now." peace of mind, you know, rather than like a lot of parents who are living with the guilt of, "I should have done this," or, "Maybe I should have done it when they were younger, and now this is too late," and all of those, that pressure that gets put on us, um, I think this can lift some of that even if treatment is not right for you or for your

So that said, I think everyone might look at different parts. It's not a read front to end. it's definitely a where are you at? There's something for you in that phase, no matter where that is. Even if you're done, there... You know, I talk about how identity shifts, what helps us when we reach maintenance and what that looks like. so I would like people to feel free to use it in the way that works for them, that meets them wherever they're at right now.

It's utilizing it for whatever your needs are and flipping around and finding things and going back to the things that are hard for you and maybe revisiting something when, um, things change. It's very much a flexible, kind of like a menu of start wherever you're at.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 24:39

And I, I love what you're highlighting because I think, um, that guilt, going back to mom guilt, food allergy mom guilt, I think there is so much of that right now, especially for younger parents or parents of younger children, I should say. Because there is so many options and, you know, they might not have heard about them from their allergist. A lot of them, they haven't, but they hear like vague references here and there, and there's this sense that they should know, they should be pursuing all these. And like you said earlier, you and I both were out there re- reading the, the scientific studies to the extent that they existed and trying to track down some of these treatments in the very early phases. But I think for them, there is this sense of it's so overwhelming, and how do you know which one is right? And they don't necessarily have a professional guiding them through. And so of course, you're not their psychologist, and you're not there to offer medical or psychological advice to them specifically, but you're there to present the information so that decision can become an informed choice rather than this feeling of like either they had to do something or they feel this guilt that they are not doing something that they should be.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 25:47

Absolutely. And I think there are so many layers and flavors of that guilt, like you said, for especially younger parents. Because I mean, I didn't know about early introduction. Nobody said that when my son was born, so I don't really carry a lot of guilt about it.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 26:01

In fact, it was the opposite, to avoid feeding all those foods

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 26:05

Uh, I did exactly. So I don't... I mean, obviously I would change it if I could, and it might not have changed the trajectory, but I don't carry... It was pretty cut and dry for us.

And you and I seeking out treatments was pretty extreme, right? Like, we were in the minority for sure. My fear, and this is not what you asked, but I do want to mention this, I talk a lot about the extremes that I went to to get the treatment. For us, I knew we needed to do something. I knew my son was too sensitive. It was impacting our life too broadly not to. That is not the case for everybody, and I don't mean to sound like that.

And I don't mean to sound like, “I drove every two weeks we drove four hours to Pittsburgh and four hours back to get his treatment and, you know, we did all these changes.” That might not be the right thing for you. So that's my concern is creating more guilt, because there's a lot of people on social media, "We do this, we fly here, we spend this much money on treatments," and I don't want to add to that guilt. Again, the goal of the book is to, to really process on an individual level, what's for you. But that looks like a lot of, um, like you said, pressure because there are things available now. Um, there are more options to choose from. It's not a doctor just saying to you, "Do this. Don't do this." Um, and I think with the people who missed early introduction, that's a tough one. And I think the people who are doing early introduction and then their kids have food allergies anyway are really getting lost in the shuffle because that's so many directions of guilt and regret. And then I think a lot of those people I'm finding in practice are so overwhelmed with that, that they are not able to then move on and process. And a lot of doctors will say that is the time to start treatment and get right into it, and that is the last thing that those people want to do because they've had such a traumatic experience and did everything right. It doesn't prevent everything, and it is not their fault. But I think those people are the ones who need support the most

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 27:58

Absolutely. And the, the even added complication of sometimes you have a younger child and you know you should be introducing these things to them, but they might be something that the older child is allergic to and you had a traumatic experience with. It's just so complex. It's unlimited the number of ways we can try to feel bad about ourselves and feel like we're not doing enough

On that vein, if you could go back to your younger self and before you started the treatment journey, what would you have wanted to know or what would you want to, would you have wanted someone to say to you at the start of that?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 28:35

No matter how well-educated you are, no matter how well-read, no matter how, um, careful you are and thoughtful in how you anticipate and plan how you want things to be and what will be in everybody's best interest and how you can manage and control all of those things, you can't. Um, and I, I really think with the best of intentions, not with a big head, but just thinking, "I'm really gonna do this parenting thing right, and I'm gonna make sure I know all of the things," you can't. We just can't predict all the things and prevent all of the things.

I really would go back and give myself some compassion. I realized once I got through the book and once we got through the treatments, like, oh my gosh, you're doing so much and you're trying so hard and you love your kid so much, and that is all you can do. And I did not treat myself internally in that way. I just pushed harder and wanted to sacrifice more. And I don't regret it, but I might have changed the mindset and the tone around it a little if I knew.

Now I know we're fine and he's in maintenance for everything and everything's going to be okay and this doesn't control our lives anymore. Um, so maybe that's it. Maybe I would have just told myself, "It's going to be okay at some point. not the way you thought it would look, but it'll be all right."

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 29:57

Such a great lesson for any parent anywhere dealing with anything.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 30:03

Yeah. Just you have to just take it as it comes, and it's, that's so hard to do.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 30:08

As we wrap up, I'm wondering what you're wanting the people who are reading this book, whether they're reading it from cover to end like you and I might, or kind of picking and choosing their way through, but what are you hoping they might feel when they're done with that?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 30:23

Mm-hmm. That's an easy one. I just hope they don't feel alone.

Maybe that's the question of my younger self is, I wish I'd had someone. And there really wasn't anybody. But I don't want anyone to feel as alone as I did going through this.

I know people have great doctors and providers, and it's different when you're a parent. So I really, genuinely, my intention is just for those people to feel it doesn't... I was gonna say it doesn't matter what you choose. It matters what you choose. You're the only one who can choose it, though, and know what the choice is. That might change over time. You have to go with the flow. And you don't have to be alone while you're doing it anymore like you did and like I did when it was so scarce. There's this, there are food allergy therapists and psychologists out there who can help you. There are resources. You know, so many of us are working on more things. People should be in your food allergy hive and have a community and resources on hand, um, the same way we Google at night. Like, "What, what is this rash? What is this..." You know, you've created a resource where people can say, "Why do I feel like this?" And right there on demand is a resource for them. They don't have to feel alone. Somebody understands it.

There's so much of that out there, so find it in the format that works for you. And the two of us will continue to, as awful as we are at social media, we will continue to try to spread the

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 31:41

We'll try to do our best, yeah. I love ending on this. So like the two messages, compassion, self-compassion for ourselves, and this message of you're not alone. There are other people, there's other resources. People are here to help support you through this journey, and your book is an amazing contribution to that

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 31:59

Thank you. Thank you so much for reading and for all of your help. For everybody listening, Dr. Hawkins really helped me make sure that it was thorough and comprehensive and made sense and accessible, um, by helping me review the content and just listening to me ramble about it as well. then being so kind to, to do this, um, episode this way so that I could share, which is a little bit difficult for me to do. So you are the best, and I appreciate your doing this so much

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 32:23

It was so great to do it. I'm glad you allowed me to

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 32:26

It was fun. We'll-- I think there are more joint episodes ahead in the future.

Elizabeth Hawkins, PhD 32:32

Thank you so much to Dr. Whitehouse, and thank you to everyone listening. Here are three things you can do after tuning in today.

Number one, get the book. "From Fear to Freedom" is the resource that the food allergy community has needed, and it's finally here. You can find it at Amazon or links are in the show notes. Whether you're just starting to think about treatment or you're already in it, this book will meet you where you are at. And as we've been talking about, it will leave you with a sense of compassion, not being alone, and a lot of really thorough education and skills for how to work through the process.

Number two, reflect on where you are in your own journey. Are you in the consideration phase wanting to learn more about available treatments? Somewhere in the middle of treatment and looking for support as you go through it? Have you been putting off a conversation with your allergist or with yourself about options? Let this episode and this book be the nudge to take the next step if that feels right to you.

And third, pass it along. Share this episode with someone in your life who's navigating food allergy treatment, a fellow parent, an adult managing their own allergies, or a clinician you trust. The more people who know this resource exists, the more people it can reach. Thank you for being here today and celebrating Dr. Whitehouse and the release of "From Fear to Freedom" with us.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD 33:46

The content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any questions about your own medical experience or mental health needs, please consult a professional. I'm Dr. Amanda Whitehouse. Thanks for joining me. And until we chat again, remember don't feed the fear.